Combiner, Player and Disc Writer feedback/suggestions

Anything and everything to do with DCP-o-matic.
jdent02
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:32 pm

Re: Combiner, Player and Disc Writer feedback/suggestions

Post by jdent02 »

Hi, I again.

Long post to follow...

I tried the latest version of the combiner, with the same results: none of the files would play once ingested.

I also tried making a 7.1 version of my test file as both an OV with picture and VF with just audio (based on the 5.1 OV). As standalone packages all three ingested fine. The OV 5.1 and OV 7.1 played back as expected, but the VF 7.1 was noticeably louder. It used the same 7.1 WAV file as the 7.1 OV, so this is unexpected and quite odd. I watched the meters of the CP750 and there was a definite and pronounced difference in level between the two, in addition to what could best be described as 'glitching' with the front display during the VF.

I subscribed to EasyDCP to see if it gave the same results. In that program, everything worked. OV and VF, standalone packages, multi CPL (with and without the VF versions), it all worked as expected, and at the correct volumes with no display glitching.

I want to help DOM get to the same place. What can I do to help track down what's going on?
Carsten
Posts: 1779
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:11 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Combiner, Player and Disc Writer feedback/suggestions

Post by Carsten »

Ah... I think you made a mistake creating the VF - this has nothing to do with the combiner. When you create VF, you first have to disable the OV audio. Otherwise, OV and VF audio may be summed into the new VF audio. If the audio was different, you would probably instantly notice it. But if you just reused the audio from the OV, it will just get louder. Is that possible?
jdent02
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:32 pm

Re: Combiner, Player and Disc Writer feedback/suggestions

Post by jdent02 »

I'm not sure if it's doing that.

When I add the 5.1 OV and the 7.1 WAV I can only select "Use video as OV and make VF". The option to do the same with the audio is locked out and not selectable at all, so I would think if it is concatenating the audio files that would be a bug.
Carsten
Posts: 1779
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:11 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Combiner, Player and Disc Writer feedback/suggestions

Post by Carsten »

Hmm. you could install the free Audacity with the FFMPEG Plugin.

https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/ins ... ndows.html


That will allow you to load the audio MXF into the audio editor, so you can compare audio levels 1:1 within the file.

Odd...

- Carsten
jdent02
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:32 pm

Re: Combiner, Player and Disc Writer feedback/suggestions

Post by jdent02 »

Well I'm an idiot. Carsten, the audio from the OV was active in the channel multiplexer so it was being concatenated with the VF audio. When I removed the OV audio from the matrix the VF and OV 7.1 audio levels were identical.

Sorry about that. So once again the only errors I have currently are with combiner outputs.
jdent02
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:32 pm

Re: Combiner, Player and Disc Writer feedback/suggestions

Post by jdent02 »

Another round of testing different things:

First off, VF packages do work fine when I put them together correctly :?

Second, I tried the latest version of the combiner. Despite all appearing to ingest fine (including looking right in the browser for once), none of the four compositions would play.

For shits and giggles I directly copied all the CPL, PKL and essence files from the four into a directory and manually updated the ASSETMAP annotation and added in the extra files. I ended up with one ASSETMAP and VOLINDEX, four PKLs, four CPLs and then six essence files.

This package ingested and played back 100% fine, with no issues.

I'm thinking that whatever problem our server has, it's related to a DCP that has a single PKL with multiple CPLs in it.

A similar package that was assembled from EasyDCP (four CPLs, two PKLs and four essence tracks) had some issues as well.

So maybe the solution is to have the combiner copy all the files and only create a new ASSETMAP.
jamiegau
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:48 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Combiner, Player and Disc Writer feedback/suggestions

Post by jamiegau »

This is a great tool.
Multi CPL DCPs is a common requirement.
However, a few comments on recent changes in behavior by larger industry players.

Typically the major studios DCPs have multi CPLs 51-CCAP/51-OCAP/CCAP-71, plus others for subtitles in different languages etc.
Typically when you get a DCP you have at least 51_CCAP and 51_OCAP.

These would both be OV specified CPLs.

If I wanted to make the same result using DCP-O-Matic. Do I make 2 DCPs OV, and combine them, as they have the same essences it would deal with that? (Plus the waist of disk space) Or do I need to make 51_CCAP a OV and the 51_OCAP a VF and then combine them?

What's the envisioned workflow?

Finally, it is becoming more common for DCPs to arrive NOT IN THE ROOT.
As digital delivery is taking of, studios are now making Multi CPL deliverables slip up into multiple DCPs. 51_CCAP_OV, 51_OCAP_VF, etc. All in different directories.. As if doing digital delivery, only download what you need. Why download all these Assets you will never use them. So it make sense they are now splitting them up. They now also, MPS for example, Dump the DCP as different folders for each version, i.e. only 1 CPL in each DCP.
So its common for a DCP to have directories in the root now. This is compatible with the requirements. Its just new to some people.

But ultimately I am interested in the reader opinion on how to reproduce multi CPL DCPs, as its likely to be a requirement for film festivals still.. not sure, they may be happy with multiple dirs with a OV plus VF DCPs. The main issue here is that if you going to ingest a VF based CPL, you need to make sure you also ingest the OV file. With the multi CPL DCP, this understanding is not required. (Could trip some operators up.)

Thanks,
James
jdent02
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:32 pm

Re: Combiner, Player and Disc Writer feedback/suggestions

Post by jdent02 »

They usually place the CCAP on the OV and then offer a VF for OCAP, or the have no captions on the OV and both CCAP and OCAP are VF packages. I've seen both methods.

As far as combining separate DCPs together, the combiner currently copies the CPL and essence files, but then combines the PKL and ASSETMAP files together.

So you get:
ASSETMAP
PKL
CPL1
CPL2
CPL3
etc...

As you can see in above posts, this method led to a lot of ingest issues on our server (which runs admittedly old software).

The method I ended up using (and Deluxe seems to use this as well on their releases) is to copy over all the .mxl, CPL and PKL files as is, and then combine the ASSETMAP files together. So I end up with:

ASSETMAP
PKL1
CPL1
PKL2
CPL2
etc...

This method works fine on our server. I have to manually combine the ASSETMAP files at this point, and that's a pain in the ass, but it works.

BTW, both methods don't care if the DCPs are OV or VF.
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