Hello everyone, I'm new here, nice to meet you.
I'd like to revive this old thread. I'm an audio engineer, currently working on two short films that are supposed to be presented on a big screen in 1,5 weeks. My current task is to mix all films (music, original soundtrack/on-site audio, etc), then render it out in stereo. If the budget even allows that, maybe surround (up-mix to 5.1).
My clients are already in talk with the cinema operator, and he would create the DCP from the provided MP4s/MOVs. But the missing key is the loudness of the audio stream - which is my task, after I'm done mixing.
The first short film is fairly dynamic - think half-musical, half fairy tale (a blend of of Descendants, Harry Potter and House of Anubis). The second short film is very music heavy, with three distinct sections where you hear the on-site sound fairly quiet - the concept is resolving around "Drowning out Noise", so I really do not want to blast people's ears away but still have the impact of audio alongside the visuals. Additional to that, this special event will also show a multi-part making of. I'm not mixing this, but I have the final word on the average loudness.
I've read a lot of articles recently. Mostly the
white paper by Eelco Grimm (Grimm Audio), called "cinema_loudness_aes_rome_2013.pdf" (very informative, I really like the simplistic approach, Eelco Grimm sits in the P-LOUD group that basically created/pushed the LUFS measurement standards), lengthy articles on Pro-Tools Expert (I didn't know that Belgium banned Setting 7, because of a hearing loss incident), but I also found this:
https://simpledcp.com/sound-levels-in-cinema/
The cinema operator told us recently, that he runs his main program on Setting 5.5. We do not know if he means "trailers" or "movies". The posts above (from you, Carsten) mainly talked about trailers, and they're mostly clocking in at/around -14LUFS, which is actually a level for "Streaming on Youtube". According to the article on SimpleDCP, that must be setting 2.5 or 2.8.
You on the other hand, you (Carsten) said, that you play Pre-Shows at 4.5, and the regular shows at 5.5.
But we're still talking trailers only, not movies. I'd go the Broadcast route, I'd actually submit a mix at -23LUFS ILk for Dolby Reference 5.5. Although technically it is "recommended" to go -27LUFS ILk. Which made me curious...
Did you maybe create a list of LUFS values for regular movie programs?
Just to get a basic idea of the overall loudness that movies are provided at?
I'd love to know how certain movies were set up (Dolby Reference <nr> and LUFS).
Especially musicals like "La La Land" and "Rocketman", action movies like Deadpool, Star Wars 8, How to Train Your Dragon 3 (I found 2 a bit loud in this one Indie Cinema I've watched), etc. Maybe even Godzilla 1 and 2 (just because I found the dynamic transitions quite well made in the first one from 2014) and (if available) "War of the Worlds" (2005). Just to get an idea of where the route could go.
And whether or not -23LUFS ILk would be too loud/too quiet at the Dolby Reference 5.5 setting (by the articles I've read, it might be a tad loud -- by your comments, Carsten, it's too quiet).
I know that surround mixes in cinemas can only be done at a movie house. But it would be so much easier for independent studios, to have an official reference list, where Audio Engineers know "ah - this route - like Netflix's -27LUFS +-2LU (so called "Dialnorm") or the European Broadcast -23LUFS +-2LU (plain EBU R-128/ITU-R BS.1770-4 specs)", then be done with it.
Any feedback on this would be gladly appreciated.